█ Papa Feige's Children █ Agatha All Along (18/09/2024) - What If...? (22/12/2024)

Thảo luận trong 'Phim ảnh' bắt đầu bởi Luka Urushibara, 3/12/18.

  1. seifer819

    seifer819 101st Airborne GVN CHAMPION Moderator ♞ Blade Knight ♞

    Tham gia ngày:
    11/1/07
    Bài viết:
    19,743
    Nơi ở:
    Philanthropy
    Thanos ko găng gặp a Strange bung sức như trên Titan mà ko có đệ hỗ trợ thì ăn hành ngập mặt. :1cool_look_down:
     
    Dr.Strange thích bài này.
  2. hoibideptrai

    hoibideptrai The Chosen Undead Lão Làng GVN

    Tham gia ngày:
    29/4/07
    Bài viết:
    44,427
  3. Giraffe

    Giraffe Persian Prince

    Tham gia ngày:
    30/11/18
    Bài viết:
    3,878
    Riêng 2 phim MCU đã gánh 4 tỏi rồi =))
     
  4. hoibideptrai

    hoibideptrai The Chosen Undead Lão Làng GVN

    Tham gia ngày:
    29/4/07
    Bài viết:
    44,427
    ai rảnh đọc chơi

    First, a primer vid illustrating where I'm coming from on this:



    That old chestnut "Who would win in a fight between X and Y character?" has been a part of nerd discourse for what feels like forever, and is especially prominent in the age of the internet with niche forums and content like "Death Battle." Tied into all of that is the nebulous concept of power scaling and more commonly known "power levels," or just how strong/fast/smart/tough or just generally powerful a character is. This is unsurprising as the most popular genre stories tend to be power fantasies about heroes and villains with special abilities in a battle over epic stakes. The problem with this viewpoint is that it can end up pushing away important aspects of character. Stories can become bogged down in the bloat of constant power-ups, debuffs, training, special moves, new abilities, etc. This isn't always a bad thing; JoJo's Bizarre Adventure gets away with it by creating suspense around the powers themselves by having them be highly unique and putting them into creative scenarios that leaves the audience guessing as to what could possibly happen next, but more often than not you end up in that Dragonball Z territory of constant powerup after powerup in a series of diminishing returns until you end up in self-parody.

    The bigger problem I've seen recently that I want to talk about is when power levels are used in favor of arguments against representation, inclusivity, and diversity. More specifically, "Power Levels" have become a smokescreen for rejecting or sidelining prominent/lead representation in an attempt to remain "objective" in sticking to a diegetic analysis of how powerful a character can or ought to be. It's a tragic irony that so often heroes are portrayed as coming from an initial position of powerlessness only to gain or be granted great power (Luke Skywalker, Peter Parker, Harry Potter, Link, etc.) and become a hero, but that members of marginalized and/or minority communities who are, in the real world, in a relative position of powerlessness to the dominant, privileged, majority seeking powerful heroes in popular media face rejection, incredulity, or ridicule. There are several example to choose from, but I wanted to highlight two:


    [​IMG]

    "How come Rey is so good with the Force so fast?"

    Now, I want to be clear and upfront and say that having this complaint doesn't necessarily make you sexist, or anti-representation, or anything like that. I think there are a lot of people who have a different interpretation of what the Force should be and feel like Rey's progression goes against that. They view it as something you master and gain control of through training, like a martial art, or a weapon, or a superpower, and there is film evidence in support of this interpretation (mostly in the Prequels with the Jedi Academy stuff), whereas others (myself included) view the Force as something much more spiritual and personal, something akin to the relationship between faith and miracles, and is less a matter of practice or repetition and more a matter of self-discovery, introspection, and belief. This perspective also has film evidence (Yoda's comments on Dagobah, Obi-Wan talking about "becoming more powerful than you can possibly imagine" right before dying, etc.) but I feel like I'm dragging myself into a discussion about Star Wars and getting off topic and will leave it there. Suffice it to say that this interpretation doesn't mean you are against a woman being the lead in a Star Wars movie and being strong in the Force.

    THAT HAVING BEEN SAID there are certainly people who take this position out of a sense that Rey being so good at the Force is "unearned" because, as a woman, she needs justification and rationale as to why she's as strong as she is. Nevermind that characters like Luke and Anakin have similarly demonstrated strength in the Force with little training, Rey's doing so apparently breaks belief in the story and makes her a "Mary Sue" because we need to justify everything about a character diegetically for it to be acceptable (here's where that video at the top applies). Apparently something as simple as "we want a woman to be the lead and be a Jedi Hero" needs to be earned, representation has to be justified, otherwise it's either pandering or "hypocritical," in that you're not being truly "equal" in attempting to give "preferential" treatment...to people who have been underrepresented, marginalized, and harmfully stereotyped in the history of genre fiction. Thus Rey's abilities and accomplishments and "power level" are rejected as bad storytelling by many in a smokescreen for wanting to keep "political issues" like representation out of their media. The other big example I wanted to highlight is:

    [​IMG]

    This one is a bit more multi-faceted, as it has taken the form of multiple objections with the same root objection.

    "How can a teenager like Shuri be the smartest person in the MCU, smarter than Bruce Banner and Tony Stark?"

    "How can Wakanda be the most advanced nation on the planet and be completely hidden?"

    "The technology of Wakanda is impractical and not really that advanced. Spear Lasers? Blanket shields?"

    These criticisms are interesting to examine as they don't typically focus on T'Challa/Black Panther, but rather on Wakanda/their tech/advancement on a general level, which makes more sense if you consider the fact that Black Panther as a hero gets his "power" in the truest sense from his home and his people, rather than just the heart-shaped herb. These criticisms are often rooted in underlying conceptions of what advanced technology looks like, what a genius looks like, what a "civilized" society looks like, and those conceptions are informed by media and portrayals that historically have eschewed racially diverse representation. Shuri's smartness, Wakanda's dual supremacy and isolation, and their culturally-informed tech are outliers to these classical depictions, and thus apparently need justification or can be rejected outright. To focus on a specific example, there was a video review of Infinity War that took an aside to criticize the decision to depict Wakanda's main weaponry as spears as "dumb" because guns are more ergonomic to hold and thus a superior form of weaponry. Nevermind that this is from a universe where three of the main hero groups primary weapons are a bow, a shield, and a hammer, the later two of which are typically thrown as projectiles. It's a clear double-standard in terms of what is and isn't "justified," and a rejection of looking at this story and these character through the lens it's presenting, one about history and culture and people, in favor of one about number-crunching and functionality and practicality, which is disingenuous at worst and missing the point at best.

    What I want to get at with these two examples are that "power levels" as a concept aren't really rooted in diegetic, in-universe explanations and rationale, but in dominant cultural narratives perpetuated by the creators and their culture (hence the video reference at the top), and that these narratives are on a fundamental level ignoring, dismissing, or outright rejecting non-dominant narratives and groups. If you try and go against the dominant narrative by rewriting it so that it's more open and inclusive to different peoples and backgrounds, you face resistance in the form of a group of people increasingly obsessed with "objectivity" and having everything fit according to the terms their familiar and comfortable with. In the end, these are stories, and stories aren't real. It doesn't matter if a character loses a fight to a "weaker" character, or that a character gets "too powerful too fast," because in the end what matters are the more fundamental messages that story and characters are imparting, its themes, its ideas. What matters is its effect on the real people experiencing it.

    Because although the stories aren't real, their impact is.
     
    Rain_Dance and Romychan like this.
  5. jun276

    jun276 Mario & Luigi Lão Làng GVN

    Tham gia ngày:
    5/7/09
    Bài viết:
    818
    10 tỷ trong tầm tay rồi:8cool_amazed:
     
  6. Vay Tiền Ko Trả

    Vay Tiền Ko Trả Liu Kang, Champion of Earthrealm Lão Làng GVN

    Tham gia ngày:
    16/11/08
    Bài viết:
    5,450
    Nơi ở:
    Gốc cây bàng
    Alađen bị chửi trước khi ra phim -> Đã lên tỏi
    Lion King bị chửi sau khi ra phim -> Sẽ lên tỏi
    Toy Story trước và sau đều được khen -> không lên nổi tỏi
    Đúng là đời :4cool_confuse:
     
  7. hoanghoihai

    hoanghoihai Sam Fisher, Third Echelon Agent Lão Làng GVN

    Tham gia ngày:
    2/11/06
    Bài viết:
    15,390
  8. hoibideptrai

    hoibideptrai The Chosen Undead Lão Làng GVN

    Tham gia ngày:
    29/4/07
    Bài viết:
    44,427
  9. KellyPhuong

    KellyPhuong Red, Pokémon champion

    Tham gia ngày:
    19/12/08
    Bài viết:
    7,040
    Nơi ở:
    Tree house with Finn
    mọi người ơi...
     
  10. gin clone

    gin clone Mega Man

    Tham gia ngày:
    7/1/18
    Bài viết:
    3,194
    thật ra lion king bị chửi cả trước lẫn sau khi ra phim =))
     
  11. Dr.Strange

    Dr.Strange Phế nhân thiên cổ ‍ ⚚ Mystic Mage ⚚ CHAMPION

    Tham gia ngày:
    2/11/16
    Bài viết:
    17,634
    Nơi ở:
    Trường vuông tròn méo
    Cái thất vọng nhất ở con sư tử là nhạc phim,beyonce cover lại như cc
     
  12. jumper

    jumper Baldur's Gate GameOver Lão Làng GVN

    Tham gia ngày:
    5/6/03
    Bài viết:
    26,581
    vậy tiêu chuẩn 1 tỏi giờ là phải bị chửi à
    :2cool_sad:
     
  13. gin clone

    gin clone Mega Man

    Tham gia ngày:
    7/1/18
    Bài viết:
    3,194
    [​IMG]
    chả biết, EG thì khen cả sau lẫn trước khi phim ra thì cũng vẫn tiển tỉ tươi rói =))
     
  14. Dr.Strange

    Dr.Strange Phế nhân thiên cổ ‍ ⚚ Mystic Mage ⚚ CHAMPION

    Tham gia ngày:
    2/11/16
    Bài viết:
    17,634
    Nơi ở:
    Trường vuông tròn méo
    Con phượng đen bị chê tơi bời và lỗ sm kìa=))
     
  15. Hyunbo

    Hyunbo Red, Pokémon champion Lão Làng GVN

    Tham gia ngày:
    14/9/09
    Bài viết:
    7,153
    Nơi ở:
    HCM
    Khúc Hulk đi thang máy hơi bựa, ảnh nhảy cái một lên mấy toà nhà mà đi xuống vẫn phải đi thang bộ, sức trâu nhảy xuống cmn cho rồi :3cool_shame:
     
  16. RavenOmega

    RavenOmega Baldur's Gate GVN CHAMPION ‍ ⚚ Mystic Mage ⚚ Lão Làng GVN

    Tham gia ngày:
    24/9/07
    Bài viết:
    40,461
    Càng chửi, càng drama càng kéo nhau đi xem, đã nghe chuyện "Cồn Trạng Lột" chưa?:1cool_look_down:
     
  17. hellwind2

    hellwind2 The Warrior of Light Lão Làng GVN

    Tham gia ngày:
    6/8/08
    Bài viết:
    2,396
    con đt này tên gì anh em :2cool_misdoubt:
    upload_2019-7-29_10-59-17.png
     
  18. hoibideptrai

    hoibideptrai The Chosen Undead Lão Làng GVN

    Tham gia ngày:
    29/4/07
    Bài viết:
    44,427
    con nít bị nói đi thang đi thì đi thôi =))
     
  19. nướcđá7A3

    nướcđá7A3 ◥▶◀◤ Moderator Lão Làng GVN

    Tham gia ngày:
    26/1/05
    Bài viết:
    25,599
    Nơi ở:
    。◕‿◕。
    chờ bluray ra rảnh háng mix 1 file iw + ac 1 + ac 2 cap vếu + eg cắt credit iw đi rồi coi 1 lèo nhỉ :))
     
  20. KellyPhuong

    KellyPhuong Red, Pokémon champion

    Tham gia ngày:
    19/12/08
    Bài viết:
    7,040
    Nơi ở:
    Tree house with Finn
    hellwind2 thích bài này.

Chia sẻ trang này